CAMBRIDGE MA. – Amy Harder, the founding Executive Editor of the climate policy publication Cipher News, expressed her pleasant surprise with several outcomes from the recent 28th Conference of the Parties of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (COP 28) in Dubai during a special episode of “Environmental Insights: Discussions on Policy and Practice from the Harvard Environmental Economics Program.”
The podcast is produced by the Harvard Environmental Economics Program. Listen to the interview here.
Hosted by Robert N. Stavins, A.J. Meyer Professor of Energy and Economic Development at Harvard Kennedy School and director of the Harvard Environmental Economics Program and the Harvard Project on Climate Agreements, Environmental Insights is intended to promote public discourse on important issues at the intersection of economics and environmental policy.
COP 28, which concluded on December 12, ended with the surprising announcement of an historic agreement calling for “transitioning away” from fossil fuels, a development that took Harder by surprise. [Professor Stavins offers his own take on the outcome of COP-28 in a recent essay at his blog, “What Really Happened at COP-28 in Dubai.”]
Amy Harder noted, “I think the results [of the COP], although not perfect, and certainly not as strong as some delegates had wanted, it's certainly stronger than I had anticipated. I think this line in the… agreement about transitioning away from fossil fuels, this will be cited in every protest, and probably lawsuits in the coming years, decades, and centuries. And that's a big deal. Even if it wasn't a phase out or phase down, it still was stronger than I had thought was possible.”
Harder admitted it will be challenging to wean the world off fossil fuels, considering that aggregate energy consumption has continued to rise over the past three decades.
“We call it the energy transition, but we actually have only added clean energy on top of oil, natural gas, and coal. We actually haven't even begun the process of displacing fossil fuels with clean energy. That's because of growing energy demand, and a lot of other factors that we can get into. But those two goals – tripling [the production of] renewable energy, and [enhanced] energy efficiency… those can happen even while we continue being dependent upon fossil fuels.”
Harder also expressed surprise at the ease with which negotiators reached agreement on the operationalization of the loss and damage fund, which is intended to help support developing countries suffering severe impacts from climate change.
“I think it was interesting and very strategically smart on behalf of the UAE government to come out of the gate on basically the first day of COP in Dubai with an agreement on loss and damage,” she said. “That was really set to be a controversial point that was really taken off the table relatively quickly in a positive way.”
Harder agreed with Stavins that the number of private companies and entrepreneurs at the COP continues to grow every year as they become more and more aware of the need to build awareness around clean energy technologies.
“We need… two to three different ledgers of climate action, and one is over time reducing fossil fuels, but two, commercializing the technologies that will replace them. And that's what we saw in Dubai, and that's really significant,” she remarked. “We can expect to see climate entrepreneurs attending COPs much more in the future now, and I think that's significant, and we will only see that more as the Dubai consensus percolates into our society.”
The lack of agreement at the COP on carbon markets was a significant disappointment, Harder admitted.
“It really comes at a pivotal time for this industry, which has been facing… a lot of questions about the efficacy of carbon offsets and the markets themselves,” she said. “Hopefully at the next COP, with the Global Stocktake and the statement about fossil fuels in not only the review mirror but in motion… negotiators can really focus and get more resolution on the carbon markets question because it really is an essential part of managing carbon effectively in the decades and centuries to come.”
Harder’s interview is the 14th and final episode of 2023 in the Environmental Insights series, with future episodes scheduled to drop each month. Click here if you wish to subscribe to the Cipher News weekly newsletter.
“Environmental Insights is intended to inform and educate listeners about important issues relating to an economic perspective on developments in environmental policy, including the design and implementation of market-based approaches to environmental protection,” said Stavins. “We speak with accomplished Harvard colleagues, other academics, and practitioners who are working on solving some of the most challenging public problems we face.”
Environmental Insights is hosted on SoundCloud and is also available on Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts, Pocket Casts, Podcast Addict, and Spotify.